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PKCali - Parkour California :: Forums :: General Parkour Talk :: Parkour Discussion
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Parkour death...

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Chaddie

Tue 03 Nov 2009 : 23:40

Registered Member #2554

Joined: Thu 17 Sep 2009 : 17:28
Posts: 33

people die in car crashes everyday, doesnt mean driving is a bad thing. one parkour death vs. thousands of driving deaths. the kid was doin a stupid thing not training properly. Danger is a relative term based on personal levels of fear. It simply cannot be said that parkour is more dangerous than any other physical activity. Most people dont MOVE! they dont move they dont move! and it gets so bad that they evntually need wheelchairs or robot-wheelchairs or walking assitance just to get around! parkour needs to give kids the desire to move and better themselves but they must know how to be safe. its not about stretching your limits, thats how you get hurt, its about improving your limits and setting the bar higher through training.

my thoughts go out to the family of the kid. however just because someone died doing "parkour" gives nobody any right to deface the discipline. i dont like parkour to be called a sport, or an adrenaline rush. i feel no adrenaline whilst training because traceurs dont put themselves in situations in which they feel threatened or in danger. we stay in control.

The is simply "the way" (parkour). the way our bodies were meant to move and the way we choose to live our lives. I dont care if people don't want to move and improve. but sometimes they get in my way of doing so. parkour is not strange and it is not any more dangerous than walking down the street. What i think is strang is how everyone can just sit around all day everyday, doing nothing, watching tv and eating. disrespecting their own bodies gettin fat and weak. living in a beautiful environment and not using it to its fullest.

sorrry for trailing off there........... anyways.

sad story..... and let's use this to reinforce the importance, in our minds, of knowing ones limits.

Fossa

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 15:57

Registered Member #1710

Joined: Fri 04 Jul 2008 : 21:09
Posts: 197

Haven't browsed the site in a few days (I've been trying to seem busy/productive in my new position) and wow... just wow.

This is an absolute tradgedy and I'm kind of terrified of the potential repurcussions this will have for parkour (way more concerned about this than the bad hype from MTV's UPC).

Something's bugging me, though. How could this be a parkour related death? What could he even have been doing on that stairwell (eight stories up) that would have been training related?

I don't see any practical way to scale the outside of that structure aside from standing on the rail, jumping, and trying to grab the base of the next level up which would be absurdly risky and not really train anything you couldn't train at or near ground level. If he was doing turn vaults or rail QM or just rail balancing and choosing to do it 80 feet in the air... words fail me.

Chaddie

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 16:33

Registered Member #2554

Joined: Thu 17 Sep 2009 : 17:28
Posts: 33

Fossa wrote ...

Haven't browsed the site in a few days (I've been trying to seem busy/productive in my new position) and wow... just wow.

This is an absolute tradgedy and I'm kind of terrified of the potential repurcussions this will have for parkour (way more concerned about this than the bad hype from MTV's UPC).

Something's bugging me, though. How could this be a parkour related death? What could he even have been doing on that stairwell (eight stories up) that would have been training related?

I don't see any practical way to scale the outside of that structure aside from standing on the rail, jumping, and trying to grab the base of the next level up which would be absurdly risky and not really train anything you couldn't train at or near ground level. If he was doing turn vaults or rail QM or just rail balancing and choosing to do it 80 feet in the air... words fail me.

exactly, personally i think of parkour as a wa of training/ way of life and if it's not done properly, it simply isn't parkour. furthermore if you manage pick up any significant injuries you are, in my eyes, not doing parkour. there is a method of training in which we can avoid harm and that method is PARKOUR. its not a sport.............

if only all anti-parkour people would read this thread............

Fossa

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 16:47

Registered Member #1710

Joined: Fri 04 Jul 2008 : 21:09
Posts: 197

Chaddie that view is a little too elitist. Accidents do happen. Mistakes do get made. Even David Belle falls.

The message we need to be embracing at a time like this is simply that parkour is not extreme. Parkour is not about stunts. Parkour is about discipline, progression, and self improvement.

Chaddie

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 17:31

Registered Member #2554

Joined: Thu 17 Sep 2009 : 17:28
Posts: 33

yeh, i get too into this... i really shouldn't post. :/ im known on other forums for my radical posts....

anyways, you sum it up nicely in that last post fossa. i didnt mean to make it sound like parkour is about perfection.

ACE

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 20:10

-= PKCali Mod =-

Registered Member #9

Joined: Mon 19 Dec 2005 : 15:51
Posts: 1293

". . . But I think that all traceurs in sac/elkgrove should try and get kcra to meet us and we can show them what parkour truly is not what theyre painting it out to be."

YES, DO THIS!!!!

"This is an absolute tragedy and I'm kind of terrified of the potential repercussions this will have for parkour"

I agree, and this isn't the first time this has happened to those unaware.

(way more concerned about this than the bad hype from MTV's UPC)."

Not at ALL saying this is directly related, but how much time did the show spend focusing on focused, disciplined ground level work vs dangerous, risky, reckless things in which people got hurt? and then kept doing it?

Just sayin....

[ Edited Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 20:49 ]

"Tell me how you MOVE, and I'll tell you who you ARE"

"For every person that says Parkour is what YOU want it to be, god kills a kitten." -Ruzkin

David Jones

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 20:25

Registered Member #1719

Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008 : 11:42
Posts: 1076

ACE wrote ...

Not at ALL saying this is directly related, but how much time did the show spend focusing on focused, disciplined ground level work vs dangerous, risky, reckless things in which people got hurt? and then kept doing it?

Just sayin....

That's exactly what popped up in my head when I heard about this. With that said, I am a firm believer that it is ultimately your choice and noone elses, no matter what type of influence (with exceptions of course). So while I could blame a certain TV show, I'll pass. I don't like offering an excuse for people to hurt themselves.

AKA:The Pennsylvania Traceur
"yeah the more stars you have the better you are at Parkour.." -Taylor
"This community supports PARKOUR, not COMPETITION - Run Without Rivals" -Herbertiste

Youtube Channel
What happens when I read an ignorant post.
--=Forum Rules=--

ACE

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 20:33

-= PKCali Mod =-

Registered Member #9

Joined: Mon 19 Dec 2005 : 15:51
Posts: 1293

I agree 100%, let me be clear-

This was not the kid's fault.

I agree that what he was doing was not responsible, but somebody should have been around FORCING into this kid's head that he was not ready. It is great that we have communities that spotlight safety but I honestly don't think it's enough.

A lot of these kids get into this just watching sensationalized shows and videos that do not showcase the discipline, energy and strength NEEDS to go into doing these things.

If this kid had worked more on his grip training, climbing strength and had more SAFE experience climbing, this may not have happened.

People don't usually get these ideas on their own.

What I'm saying is people need to worry about getting paid LESS and worry MORE about being ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SURE that the right message gets spread and that people that need teaching, get taught, because soon enough more of this and this - [link]
will happen and NONE of us will be allowed to train as we please.

"Tell me how you MOVE, and I'll tell you who you ARE"

"For every person that says Parkour is what YOU want it to be, god kills a kitten." -Ruzkin

David Jones

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 20:41

Registered Member #1719

Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008 : 11:42
Posts: 1076

I've always strived to explain the amount of safety that goes into our discipline. I think it's one of those things that can't be stressed enough to a newcomer. Have to really bash it in their heads! :P lol

AKA:The Pennsylvania Traceur
"yeah the more stars you have the better you are at Parkour.." -Taylor
"This community supports PARKOUR, not COMPETITION - Run Without Rivals" -Herbertiste

Youtube Channel
What happens when I read an ignorant post.
--=Forum Rules=--

David Jones

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 20:42

Registered Member #1719

Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008 : 11:42
Posts: 1076

Also, RIP to Kenny and I pray for his family.

AKA:The Pennsylvania Traceur
"yeah the more stars you have the better you are at Parkour.." -Taylor
"This community supports PARKOUR, not COMPETITION - Run Without Rivals" -Herbertiste

Youtube Channel
What happens when I read an ignorant post.
--=Forum Rules=--

ACE

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 20:43

-= PKCali Mod =-

Registered Member #9

Joined: Mon 19 Dec 2005 : 15:51
Posts: 1293

Let me add one last thing-

I don't want to give the impression that most of us aren't doing our best to portray Parkour in the best light possible, because many of us are.

However, I would like to submit that it takes VERY few of the reports like the ones above to give people a bad impression but it would take a LOT to give said people a good impression after this.

REMEMBER: the media does not see (and very rarely do they care about) us spending hours doing QM or low level balance training. What they DO see (and sells like hotcakes) is "NEW X-TREME SPORT LIGHTS UP MTV!!!!" and then sells even more when a week later they print "AFOREMENTIONED NEW EXTREME SPORT KILLS TEENS!!!"

and yeah, RIP, of course.

[ Edited Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 20:45 ]

"Tell me how you MOVE, and I'll tell you who you ARE"

"For every person that says Parkour is what YOU want it to be, god kills a kitten." -Ruzkin

ACE

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 20:49

-= PKCali Mod =-

Registered Member #9

Joined: Mon 19 Dec 2005 : 15:51
Posts: 1293

[link]

"Tell me how you MOVE, and I'll tell you who you ARE"

"For every person that says Parkour is what YOU want it to be, god kills a kitten." -Ruzkin

Stumpy

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 22:23

Registered Member #2212

Joined: Mon 23 Mar 2009 : 21:24
Posts: 787

ACE wrote ...

I agree 100%, let me be clear-

This was not the kid's fault.

this is the only thing i disagree with.
this kid (from what i can tell) wasnt some kid who just ran out there and died the first time he tried PK. he had some name and possibly influence with a few different parkour groups or websites, so he had to be doing it for a little while at least.

just because he didnt see the philosophy behind PK does not mean someone didnt teach it to him. he may have just disagreed with it and was more into flips and cool stunts than getting stronger. i have tried to teach many times to a group of kids at my school who like to do flips and stuff, and they never listened to me. they just told me to f off untill one of them broke their ankle. they all just quit then instead of learning the right way.

what im saying is, dont take the responsibility off his shoulders. there is a point where even the most inexperienced kid needs to have some basic common sesnse and just say no.

oh yah, im going to try and send an email to KCRA about the true meaning of PK, and anyone else who sends similar emails would help. :)

"Limits were set by our creator to give us somthing to do."

"You break limits or break bones, either way you gotta good story to tell."

Want to join a PK group, but are not near Sac or another big town?
Join Peregrine Parkour, we are located in Placerville CA and are always looking for cool people to join our group.

ACE

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 22:46

-= PKCali Mod =-

Registered Member #9

Joined: Mon 19 Dec 2005 : 15:51
Posts: 1293

See, here is where things get complicated. (*note* what he was doing/what exactly happened is still speculation)

Just because the kid died, doesn't mean he didn't THINK he was capable of doing what he did.

In this kid's case, he did indeed have contact with the community and had been practicing for at least a little while. He could have been completely sure that he was capable of what he was doing and in his own mind, the fact that he had been training intelligently up until that point, probably fueled his confidence.

He may not have actually realized the pointless-ness of being on that parking garage. Hell, when I was new, I did some pretty stupid/reckless/pointless things in the name of "training" and proving something to myself. I could have gotten pretty hurt too.

Common sense isn't as common as you might think.

After 5 years, EXPERIENCE tells me there is absolutely, 100% no reason for me to spend my time on parking garage.

After just a couple months however, misguided-ness, ego, and a confidence in abilities I thought I possessed (but didn't) told me differently.

I think that is what happened with this kid and I don't think that's his fault at all.

(Climbing a parking garage looks easy and to those without experience, it may require a lot more skill then was thought, especially if something goes wrong.)

"Tell me how you MOVE, and I'll tell you who you ARE"

"For every person that says Parkour is what YOU want it to be, god kills a kitten." -Ruzkin

Stumpy

Wed 04 Nov 2009 : 22:54

Registered Member #2212

Joined: Mon 23 Mar 2009 : 21:24
Posts: 787

yaya, i dues your right. im not sure if he is completly unresponsible though. im more worried if even the PK community sais it was not his fault, then someone is going to get blamed. and scince the finger is already being pointed at us, then it will just add fuel to the fire.

but i get what your saying, i jumped off a roof onto a dumpster and almost lost my shins and face because of it. and that was on my very first pk session. so i totally understand thinking you can do something that you cant do, but if i broke my legs (i came very close, i got massive shin splints for several months afterwards) i would have gone "well... that was dumb. my bad." and not do it again.
i was lucky enough for a second chance. but this kid wasnt.

for the new guys out there, dont trust your ego when you want to try something big. trust your PK community and the great guys and gals that are on this (or other) site (s). the last thing you want to do is end up in a wheel chair for a few months (or worse) because you wanted to do a back flip off a roof or something.

gmpianoman

Thu 05 Nov 2009 : 00:30

Registered Member #26

Joined: Fri 23 Dec 2005 : 12:17
Posts: 1388

wow [censored] the news...sad to hear about this..

Invisible stars of intimidation.

Corndogg

Thu 05 Nov 2009 : 19:15

Registered Member #68

Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2006 : 11:20
Posts: 196

Wanted to repeat here what I posted on APK:

"Currently there is NO PROOF that this is a parkour related death.

For those that decry the media for incorrect parkour portrayal, why are you letting yourself be led around by the nose and jumping onto the media's bandwagon that this is a parkour related death? Makes absolutely no sense, and your speculation only hurts the perception of parkour.

As Andy said, do NOT push your way into the family's mourning. Please post your support and condolences here or on SFPK and leave it at that for now. SacPK has already been contacted by media and has declined, this is not the time to play the blame game or have knee jerk reactions or fuel media ratings, we need to respect the passing of a fellow human and traceur.

Thanks all."

sfparkour.com

ACE

Thu 05 Nov 2009 : 20:03

-= PKCali Mod =-

Registered Member #9

Joined: Mon 19 Dec 2005 : 15:51
Posts: 1293

I agree with not bothering the family but to suggest that this could likely not be a parkour-related death is kind of silly. He did Parkour. He was supposedly climbing a parking structure. There is a GLARINGLY obvious connection there. While I agree that it is still speculation, I have a feeling that most people are just calling it so, to take the responsibility off themselves to do anything.

"Tell me how you MOVE, and I'll tell you who you ARE"

"For every person that says Parkour is what YOU want it to be, god kills a kitten." -Ruzkin

Chaddie

Thu 05 Nov 2009 : 21:00

Registered Member #2554

Joined: Thu 17 Sep 2009 : 17:28
Posts: 33

wow that news report is horrible......... :(

Corndogg

Thu 05 Nov 2009 : 21:46

Registered Member #68

Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2006 : 11:20
Posts: 196

ACE wrote ...

I agree with not bothering the family but to suggest that this could likely not be a parkour-related death is kind of silly. He did Parkour. He was supposedly climbing a parking structure. There is a GLARINGLY obvious connection there. While I agree that it is still speculation, I have a feeling that most people are just calling it so, to take the responsibility off themselves to do anything.

I'd recommend reading his friends post in the SFPK thread. Did the news specifically say climbing the parking structure? To my knowledge they didn't.

[ Edited Thu 05 Nov 2009 : 23:08 ]

sfparkour.com

Juxta

Fri 06 Nov 2009 : 00:02

Registered Member #2221

Joined: Sun 29 Mar 2009 : 02:43
Posts: 358

Corndogg wrote ...

I'd recommend reading his friends post in the SFPK thread. Did the news specifically say climbing the parking structure? To my knowledge they didn't.

I read the thread and I'm 100% positive your community knew the kid better than I did (obviously), so I won't doubt their thoughts on the matter in the least.
However, that does not change the fact that parkour itself still has another dirty media finger pointing at it, and this time a death was involved. (This was pointed out in post #38 in that thread, Corndogg.) That is something we cannot really ignore or put behind us just because "It's all speculation."

I mean if someone asks me about the incident (which someone actually has) I wouldn't respond with "Oh, it wasn't parkour. Don't worry about it."

Ain't nothin gonna break my stride

Corndogg

Fri 06 Nov 2009 : 02:35

Registered Member #68

Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2006 : 11:20
Posts: 196

I guess I'll end by saying that Kenny's death was a tragedy, and to me personally, respecting that is more important that arguing or speculating if it was parkour, or otherwise.

[ Edited Fri 06 Nov 2009 : 02:40 ]

sfparkour.com

9 A.D.

Fri 06 Nov 2009 : 14:41

Registered Member #568

Joined: Sat 23 Dec 2006 : 15:48
Posts: 487

i think you are missing the larger point; it will be a greater tragedy if we, as a community, fail to learn from this and take actions to ensure that this situation will never occur again.

the ugliest traceur on pkcali.

DANNYC

Fri 06 Nov 2009 : 15:43

Registered Member #1732

Joined: Tue 15 Jul 2008 : 15:31
Posts: 536

You can't. We can try to educate more but you have no control over what other people will do. It's an individual's personal responsibility. The only person you can control is you.
I do hope this tragedy makes people think twice before attempting something dangerous.

[ Edited Fri 06 Nov 2009 : 15:44 ]

STRENGTH & HONOR

Lonnie

Fri 06 Nov 2009 : 16:03

-= Super Mod =-

Registered Member #664

Joined: Mon 05 Mar 2007 : 21:52
Posts: 2800

I do think that there is a good message to be found in reflecting on the risks we take and the inevitability of tragedy, however, let's not forget our respect and sensitivity for those who where touched by this incident, parkour related or not.

For now, why don't we keep the two separate, leaving speculation of kenny's death to the police but continue discussion of how such a tragedy will inevitably effect all of us?

“Don't wait until everything is just right. It will never be perfect. There will always be challenges, obstacles and less than perfect conditions. So what. Get started now. With each step you take, you will grow stronger and stronger, more and more skilled, more and more self-confident and more and more successful.”

-Mark Victor Hansen

PKCali - Parkour California :: Forums :: General Parkour Talk :: Parkour Discussion

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